Curse

Lhim · Aug 15, 2008, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by centur

imagine what you can do on 16 sp with "Attuned was" 53% reduction an ~50% from attribute benefit if it will affect all spells... Quite all free skills, and Eles will woe about "attuned rits are better nukers".

With AwS + an attunement you basically can be an energy-free nuker. Still you don't see many of those, simply because Elementalists are just better at it.
But indeed if the reduction would only apply to Binding Rituals, Weapon spells and Item spells that would be a good improvement already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Some ideas:

For every 4 points in Spawning Power, you gain +1 energy regeneration.
So combined with natural regen and armour regen,
at 0 SP, 4 energy regen
at 4 SP, 5 energy regen
at 8 SP, 6 energy regen
at 12 SP, 7 energy regen

alternately,

For every 3 points in Spawning Power, Spells and Binding Rituals cost -1 energy.

So energy cost reduction at 3 SP is 1, at 12 SP is 4, at 15 SP is 5, etc.
At 14 SP and 4 energy reduction, 5e spells cost 1e, 10e spells cost 6e, 15e spells cost 11e, etc.

And one I particularly like:

For each rank of Spawning Power, the Energy cost of all of your spells, Rituals, Ritualist skills are decreased by 4%.

Like a spell version of Expertise.

I still like one of these and I think it would go nicely with a suggestion made by Sante Kelm for a Summoner's Insignia here

upier · Aug 15, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

IMHO both spawning and communing need looking at.
When the many of the popular ritualist builds both forms of the game barely touch these attributes it should be screaming something to the devs.

I am guessing it says:
"It's not causing a problem so it must be fine!"

draxynnic · Aug 16, 2008, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Or possibly "it's not causing a problem so its less important than things that are."

Unless it could be used to solve a problem...

-Makai- · Aug 16, 2008, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Or it could be, "Ritualists are a minority among the player base and even we didn't understand their role."

intimidator89 · Aug 17, 2008, 04:58 AM // 04:58

/signed for any buff to spawning power. By far the weakest primary attribute.

spirit of defeat · Dec 02, 2008, 10:41 AM // 10:41

I don't like the 'expertise' idea, even if it would be implemented AWS would be nerfed, logically.

The spirit "copy" is something I do like. But think about it.
[Pain]@10 110sec
[Bloodsong]@10 110sec
[Vampirism]@10 150sec
Spawning@ 12- max copies per spirit @12 = 3

That would mean you can -with great easy- maintain 9 spirit's
Throw in [painful bond]+[boon of creation]+[summon spirits] and you will rule.
Logically [painful bond] will be nerfed

So I do suggest a max number of total spirits of 6-8?

I also like the e-regen idea

Zera Fang · Dec 02, 2008, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Spawning should logically increase the speed at which spirits are summoned. Seeing as Fast Casting doesn't effect binding rituals, there is only one skill in the entire game that increases the speed at which a binding ritual is executed (which happens to be an elite and not all that great), and all binding rituals have a 2 to 5 second casting time, essentially making them impossible to cast in the vicinity of an interupter... Even Ritualists aren't good at being Ritualists.

On top of this some form of armor/resistance to spirits would be helpful. For the most part spirits are below level 13 (Except Rejuvenation, which can hit 16), and because of this have insanely week armor allowing them, for the most part, to be easily taken down.

Some sort of boost to having to carry around an item would be helpful, although, I'd like to mention that there is an insignia that gives you extra armor while holding something. Combine that with the extra armor that certain item spells give you... A boost to armor when holding something linked to Spawning could prove a disastrous thing. Saw someone mention that, thought I'd point out the folly of it. Increasing max energy while holding an item would be effective, to balance out the lost energy for not having a focus/staff.

/Signed. A boost would make Ritualists a more attractive class to play.

upier · Dec 02, 2008, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

So I do suggest a max number of total spirits of 6-8?

Hey, would you look at that!
I already bitched in this thread!
I sure do get around! (Well in better ways also ...

)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

If you really want to, minions are capped by their respective attribute, so maybe the same kind of mechanism would be possible for boosting Spawning Power in PvE without making it silly OP. Something along the lines

Spawning Power (PvE) Every 4 ranks in Spawning Power enables you to control one additional spirit in the range of other spirits of the same kind.

SP = 0 -> 1 concurrent spirit allowed like now
SP = 4 -> 2 spirits of the same kind allowed
SP = 8 -> 3 spirits of the same kind allowed
SP = 12 -> 4 spirits of the same kind allowed
SP = 16 -> 5 spirits of the same kind allowed

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Something like this would actually be very acceptable - or maybe even something in the lines of limiting the amount of spirits you can have rather then limiting the number of spirits of the same kind.

The issue is that (for instance) Bloodsong already has a 30 sec recharge while lasting 140 secs. Which means you already need to waste your elite just to be able to raise your spirit army (compared to a MM).

So yeah, I am still for it!

JASON626 · Dec 02, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

I'd like to see a buff as well.

/signed.

Lhim · Dec 02, 2008, 07:47 PM // 19:47

yup, me too. Spawning power is just really really bad.

spirit of defeat · Dec 03, 2008, 08:47 AM // 08:47

It's quite useless. Indeed.
Even a minor fix of extra Armour/higer levels for spirits would improve it.

ele pl · Dec 03, 2008, 09:03 AM // 09:03

/signed
SP needs some buff, the weakest primary atrib ever.
I like idea of gaining energy from dieing spirits - it would be soul reaping for rits.
Also, better armor/hp for spirits for every rank in SP seems fine, and balanced.

jaximus · Dec 03, 2008, 03:07 PM // 15:07

i disagree with anything having to do with the change in energy cost/regen/gain/anything with energy. soul reaping and expertise (another thread on guru that was highly debated) came to a consensus that anything having to do with energy management (gain/redux) was a bad idea. someone will find a way to abuse it creating a new gimmic which would lead to more skills being nerfed or whatever. no changing energy anything. with that said...

rits are the jack of all trades. resto's numbers are bigger than healing spells because of divine favor. they can summon rangeresque spirits. they can deal elemental damage similar to an elementalist. if you change energy tools, resto may overtake healing prayer monks? since spirits arent the trend in pvp, we should look elsewhere. im not really sure what to suggest. the infrastructure is there for something similar to leadership upon creation of a spirit or effect of a shout/item spell drop. since i dont believe it should be energy related perhaps health gain or damage dealt? perhaps like explosive growth for dropping an item? perhaps something like whatever the deldrimor title track bonus is for destroyers, have that for rits. whenever you drop an item spell or create a spirit, you steal 15 or so health from foes within the radius of effect?

this probably isnt the solution, but i believe the solution lies not with tweaking the energy management in any way.

bargaw · Dec 03, 2008, 05:28 PM // 17:28

I was thinking about making spirits much more resistant to dmg unless targets are under weapons spells.

About spawning power, i have few ideas:
#1 - bonus energy/health regen for about 15s after summoning creature
#2 - energy/health GAIN after summoning creature
#3 - energy gain after casting weapon spell
#4 - health/armor/energy/hct/hsr/whatever bonus for holding ashes
<maybe i just should shut up and play my necro...>.<>
anyway
ritualists are best minions bombers, but their primary attribute is exactly opposite of this tactic, also communing should not require investing 12+ points in SP to make it 'effective'
/sign for SP buff/rework

ps. buff armor of unfeeling and all THREE cummuning elites

Edit: communing*

kostolomac · Dec 03, 2008, 08:35 PM // 20:35

IMO Spawning power should be like this :" The present description and for each point of SP your rituals activate 4% faster and you gain 1 energy for each 3 ranks of SP when you cast a weapon spell".
Or just make spirits more tougher.

jaximus · Dec 03, 2008, 11:21 PM // 23:21

seriously, with how people say expertise and soul reaping arent balanced, DO NOT have SP have anything to do with energy. maybe base damage redux while activating skills? because rits have so many different uses heals/wep spells/spirits the secondary should be something universally useful. perhaps too much rethinking for gw1?

spirit of defeat · Dec 04, 2008, 09:36 AM // 09:36

The SP 'expertise' idea could work [Attuned Was Songkai] would be nerfed.
If its done the reduction could be 1point sp= 2% less cost so @12SP 24% less Energy.
The question would be, would it also effect (binding)rituals?

I personally don't like the SP 'soul reaping' idea it's to easy to abuse: take 3 Rit's and skills like [Feast of Souls]+[Ritual Lord]+bunch of spirits=infinite energy on Rit's.

I do like the copy of 1 kind of spirits idea but the total of all spirit's per player should be maxed out the.

The Item spell fixed don't appeal to me either. IMO item spells are fine.
A-net should fix what a Rit's most unique aspect: Spirit's

Phantom Flux · Dec 04, 2008, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by centur

I wonder why rits spawning power affects Spirits and Weapon spells, but not affecting Item spells? Actually i never saw any other primaries (except VwK farmers) used Item spells. And ritualists usually using it a lot.

I think it will be a good idea to add some benefits to Item spells from rit primary attribute ( it either raise usage of rit primariy chars imo, cause there is no reason except runes to play as Rt - noone specs to spawning, resto\chanelling only).

For example, each point of spawning power add 3(4)% to duration of item spell\shorten recharge time (values should be carefully considered not to overpower Rts).
And each 3 points - lower mana cost on 1 point. Or another idea - when item dropped - character gain 1 mana for each 3(2) points in SP.

This buff will add some benefits to rits primaries on short duration item spells, also it will help a little with rits energy management, which actually far from any balanced state imo.

/signed Spawning power needs to be buffed or there is no point to it. Any other class can be a just as good spirit spammer with no need for spawning power.

Ritualists are awesome, but the poor benefit of SP isn't fair for them.

Abedeus · Dec 04, 2008, 01:17 PM // 13:17

I'm in for the multiple spirits idea. I mean, why not?

In PvP, spirits die or are just pwnd in few seconds by AoE.

In PvE, it could mean actually using a Ritualist to prepare a nice bombardment of mobs before luring them. Of course, in both pvp and pve it's ritualist and pve-only spirits. Having 5 Frozen Soils would be... strange. Or 5 Lifes. Also, this would buff some of the under-used elites like Spirit Channeling or Clamor of Souls.

Or just the -energy for 0, 4, 8, 12 and 16 spawning power.

jaximus · Dec 04, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

upon further consideration, spawning power, although at first glance of what it does seems underpowered, it really isnt. with the increase of weapon spell durations and summoned creatures health bonuses, this is a very powerful tool. keep in mind that weapon spells cannot be removed, only interrupted on cast. VERY powerful. wep of warding saw much rework after the power was shown. the increase in summons health is pretty nice also. rits have both offensive and defensive skills in their arsenal. they are very versatile. item spells, though they deprive one of the use of wep mods/bonuses, are still carried no? this means the benefit outweighs the loss, correct? plus with the hidden health/energy of some wep sets, you can save yourself grief later.

although spawning power seems to be of little significance, the 'weakness' is what keeps the game balance. because rits are so versatile and can do so many things, any tweak could drastically shift the balance of the game. rits can do many things well, but nothing exceptional. therefore spawning needs to stay 'weak.'